The Money MBA Podcast welcomes Frank Jurs “Occupy Wisdom” to the show.

This is Part 1, of a 2 part interview.

Visit for access to a video recording of the interview and detailed show notes

Frank Jurs (an alias pen name) is best known on Twitter as “Occupy Wisdom”.

Recently he’s changed the name a few times, and has settled on @Occupy_Wysdom after a short stint as “Stack_Capital”, but who knows what it will be by the time you search for him.

Regardless of what name he uses, his avatar image is unmistakable, and so is his ability to stir up heated debate on Twitter.

Some of his favorite topics include Bitcoin, Crypto-currencies, Gold, and anything related to the topic of sound money, which was the premise for his book “Why We’re Poor: Understanding Money Ignorance in America” .

His ability to simplify complex ideas in 140 characters made him a must follow for the Fin-Twit community, and in this interview I gave Frank the extra space to develop his thoughts in greater detail.

Whether you like him, or hate him, you’ll love our conversation … and regardless which camp you fall into be sure you listen to the full interview as we discuss the potential of inviting a few of our listeners to engage with Frank directly on a future podcast episode.

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Originally recorded July 13, 2019


Guest Name:
Frank Jurs (Occupy Wisdom)

Professional Experience:
Author of “Why We’re Poor: Understanding Money Ignorance in America” 

Social Media:
Twitter: @Occupy_Wysdom (formerly “Stack_Capital”)


Host Name:
Jon Kutsmeda

Professional Experience:
Best Mortgage Rate

Jon Kutsmeda .com

Airbnb Financing

Money MBA Podcast

Social Media:
Twitter: @JonKutsmeda

Instragram: @JonKutsmeda

Facebook: @JonKutsmeda

YouTube: @JonKutsmeda


  • 3:11 – What sparked Frank’s interest in finance
  • 4:25 – How we got from there to here; any changes since the Great Financial Crisis?
  • 7:53 – Explaining the derivatives market
  • 10:15 – The distortion of risk
  • 13:23 – Negative interest rates
  • 14:34 – Nominal vs. Real rates
  • 19:20 – Negative yielding bonds
  • 20:47 – Visualizing the immensity of student loan debt
  • 22:58 – Frank is a “Trillionaire”
  • 23:41 – The myth of consumption-based economies      
  • 26:56 – Punishing savers
  • 30:21 – The bond market is broken     
  • 34:09 – The Reset, Bitcoin, and Crypto-currencies
  • 42:17 – What are the characteristics of sound money? Is Bitcoin Money?
  • 48:17 – Difference between money and currency 
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